A Tentative Syntax of Modern Indoeuropean published! And a Spanish translation of A Grammar… on its way

These are the latest news:

    • Fernando López-Menchero’s A Tentative Syntax of Modern Indoeuropean has been published online and in printed version. This book contains hundreds of common sentences and expressions, comprehending a large variety of usual situations and syntactic structure, to acquire the necessary syntactic knowledge to speak the ancient language of Late Proto-Indo-Europeans. It has a comfortable bilingual two-column format that helps the reader (whether new to the language or an advanced scholar) to learn Proto-Indo-European vocabulary and grammar while studying its syntax.
    • After more than a year of work, a reader has provided us with a full Spanish translation of the third edition of A Grammar of Modern Indo-European. We are currently revising the translation, while we fit the texts into the original format. Within weeks we plan to publish the fully translated work. Another reader is also working on a French version of the book. Please contact us if you are interested in working on other translations.

 

Your Indo-European Language Team

Modern Indo-European learning course (Alpha version) revised, Syntax near to publication, and translations

It seems that, after some months of public standstill in our websites, people are showing again that they have been working hard backstage. 2012 will be a great year for those willing to learn (Late) Proto-Indo-European as a living language:

1) Mario has published a revision of his work, the Modern Indo-European learning course. He would like to thank readers and contributors, and we would like to remind you that you can collaborate with corrections and additions, by contacting him personally.

2) Fernando is still working on his temptative Syntax of Modern Indo-European. He has been creating a great, thorough and comprehensive work, full of bilingual examples, from the advances we have been able to read. And even though it must be published months later than expected, and possibly still months from now – since he is constantly revising and improving it -, it will certainly be worth the waiting…

3) A member has offered himself to translate the Grammar into French. If you would like to offer him some help, please contact us.

4) As you probably know, more than 3 years ago our account on PayPal was suddenly frozen, after receiving some money from members; it was “provisional”, until we showed “proofs” of our not-for-profit nature (which they hadn’t asked on registration, or for receiving money). Apart from the official documents that we sent them and that should have sufficed (Associations are not-for-profit in Spain, and Dnghu is one of the few that appear on the official National Registry of Associations), we have sent PayPal every possible document requested, and asked for more instructions to open again the account: After hours lost obtaining, scanning and sending every possible stupid “proof” you can imagine (for an account that might receive a maximum of some hundred dollars a year), they haven’t done so – just allowed us temporarily to take away the money received. Because of that, the membership of the Association has been almost impossible for everyone since 2009, and indeed regular payments were stopped, and just an initial fee requested; some recent members haven therefore been allowed to join officially, and to pay after we solve this issue.

After all these months, I have to agree with the people who hate PayPal for their service, and I guess we will have to create an account on Google Checkout or other similar but less known service. As you might infer, the payment for membership was always more a question of barrier to entry (“only those who are really interested in the Association will pay for membership”) than a financing issue for us – since we survive on free work and donations -; but this level of incompetence is unacceptable…

Also, after the improvements of 2012 in the development of the language, we certainly need to start thinking about organizing language courses and “congresses”, as well as other services for interested people. For such events, external payment cannot be just an option to complement donations, and we will need a professional and trustable payment service.

Your Indo-European Association team.

Open letter to the Indo-European Language Revival Association members, friends and supporters

Dear members, friends and supporters of Dnghu,

We are aware that we have neglected many of you over the last months. This letter is part of our attempt to put this right, informing you of the latest events.

After a long time of dealing with our professional issues, which have completely absorbed our time, partly due to the economic crisis, partly due to some special career compromises, we are already planning to resume work where we left it, beginning in march 2011.

During the last 10 months of standstill, some of you have proposed changes to our texts, or questioned reconstruction issues, while others have suggested improvements to the project’s short- and long-term aims; some did also help us solve common (spam or technical) problems in our websites.

Even though we didn’t answer ANY of you due to the lack of time, please be assured that we did (and do) read your mails and comments, and that we thank you very much for your support, proposals, and criticism. If you really needed a specific answer, please do not hesitate to resend your question after we have renewed the work on Dnghu.

Some members (and board members) have changed works, or have moved, or have been working harder due to the crisis and its effects on personal and family finances, and this has led to the long break.

However, due to the free and public nature of our works, our lack of activity hasn’t prevented many of you from downloading and buying the books, studying the language, and trying to speak it. You are thus helping create a more prepared community for the beginning of the (spoken) IE revival; we are aware of these facts, too, and that gives us another strong reason to renew our efforts as soon as possible.

I myself have been quite busy with practices in some hospital services during my last year at medical school, and for some months already I have been preparing myself for the State Exam for Medical Residents (the so-called “MIR”) in Spain. After taking the exam, I hope to have at least 3 free months before the beginning of hospital work, and I expect to dedicate some of that free time to the project.

Among the most pressing matters, there are some needed corrections and improvements to the Grammar (especially the Syntax) and vocabulary, some additional text translations into MIE, a learning method (Assimil– or Teach Yourself-like), and the long-awaited (and long-requested, by the way) podcasts, or at least some audios to help speakers with IE pronunciation.

As you probably understand, this is a project that began as an economic-revivalist one in 2006 – a theoretical proposal of one language for the EU for practical reasons, shared within the University, which got the attention and recognition of its leading members, and which should have been taken over afterwards – according to the initial plan – by its Faculty of Arts, with research projects on linguistics.

Dnghu has instead gradually become a mainly private, linguistic-revivalist project (with the Association as the accompanying ‘social’ branch of the language revival), which has also changed its “EU-only” initial vision, and in which the linguistic work is now the leading question, that needed (and needs) to be carefully discussed and reviewed by some of us with no direct contact between us, and who have other interests and careers in the daily world…

Thank you for your patience and support,

Best regards,

Carlos Quiles

Membership of the Indo-European Language Association, now without ordinary annual subscription fees

Statement by the Board, 27 Feb 2009: There has been a gross mistake in the description of the new condition for members. The ordinary Assembly General, held in February, decided in second call (Art. 20, First, Estatutes) with a qualified majority – of the members that were there with right to vote – that ordinary annual subscription fees would amount to 0€. There were indeed talks about “lifelong membership” (which is partly the practical consequence of the decision taken), but the matter wasn’t voted in those terms due to the need of modifying the Constitution. Even if the majority of votes (unanimity) qualified to legally make such a modification – according to Art. 20 b) – the terms of the agreement didn’t include but a change in ordinary annual subscription fees. Furthermore, no specific talks were held or decisions taken about the necessary modification of Estatutes to include such a “lifelong membership” condition. We are sorry for the inconveniences (if any).

The Association opened itself for international membership a year ago. Before its first birthday forces the first subscribers to pay one more year, we have decided to turn ordinary subscription fees to zero, and to make the standard payment the only type of subscription, following the example of other international non-profit organizations.

The decision is based on two main reasons:

  1. The Association was firstly conceived as a regional one. Members have subscribed from different European countries, expecting to find an international organization. The strength of such an international Association is based on the number of members who can collaborate with each other in the different regions and countries, and this is difficult to achieve with a 15€/year obligatory fee.
  2. Subscriptions have been based on the benefits of membership, which have changed over time because they were excessively optimistic, especially regarding the benefits of “academic courses”, “conferences” and “meetings”, which haven’t been held. It isn’t fair that early members pay more for benefits and events that will be held in the future, and it could make them abandon the Association expecting a better future value of the subscription fee.

We have therefore left just a standard unique 15€ fee as obligatory, because the 7€ unwaged/student fee isn’t rational anymore. Nevertheless, those subscribers who made use of that discount will be automatically turned into standard members. We didn’t consider leaving a lower standard fee to avoid the membership of unresponsible people attracted by low prices.

Also, given that the Association will (hopefully) become a strong organization in number of willing members, the linguistic aspect will need the collaboration of the old concept of the “Europaiom Consortium of experts”, which is now the Proto-Indo-European Language Foundation (Eur. Dnghu Bhudhnós). Its internal and external organization rules will be written down in the Association Wiki.

Other development of February was the inclusion of ads in all public wikis, to help cover the monthly expenses of the Association.

Your Indo-European language team.

The collaborative textbook A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, already in pre-version 4, heading for its second printed edition

Following the initial release date previously announced, the main collaborative textbook published by the Association, A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, has entered a pre-version 4 stage, heading for its second printed edition.

Appart from the expected changes in MIE concept (viz. EIE, PIH, etc.) and the correction of errors and ommissions, the structure has been revised and new sections added, thanks to the unending contributions of Fernando López-Menchero. Among them, a “Indo-European in Use” section and a phonetical transcription of common vocabulary from English into Indo-European, with Latin meaning for clarification.

The Pre-Version has been published as another revision of the first printed edition (v. 3.85), to allow more contributions and corrections until this (fourth) full revision of the grammar is finished. Publication of the second printed edition is due before the end of this year.

Your Indo-European Language Team.

Proposals and votes in the Association, free collaboration easier with OpenID, translations and more linguistic projects

These are the latest changes and projects of the Association:

1. After debating the possibility of opening free international membership for all, restricting actual membership (with voting rights) just for local people – to compel foreigners to develop their own Indo-European language revival organizations in the different countries, instead of relying in our tiny Association for the whole European Union – we eventually decided to maintain the statu quo, letting foreigners become members, and offering new ways to make proposals and vote them online, to elect and become eligible to the Association board, so that we can grow as a real European Association; indeed without losing the hope of seeing more local and regional associations being created elsewhere to promote and support PIE revival… For that purpose we installed a Wiki, accessible from the homepage, opened for all.

2. We installed the OpenID extension for all the Wiki websites and the WordPress blogs used at Dnghu for news, latest reports, personal bloggin, etc. This way, instead of looking for a common database registration of new users, we hope to offer everybody the possibility to collaborate everywhere at Dnghu’s website without a need to register, not even once if the user has already an OpenID account.

3. We offer now translations of the Latest Reports section into 7 more languages: German, French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Dutch and Polish. Indeed they are still only automatic translations, as we lack the necessary team to work with translations, but with these WordPress blogs and with OpenID we hope to get more contributions to improve the translated news.

4. We are also preparing two more language projects, aimed at improving the current European Union’s language policy: Languages World to offer an improved World language collaborative compendium, which should include proto-languages as well, to improve current compendia like the Ethnologue; and PrÅ«siskan, a Wiki to work on the revival of the Old Prussian language. For now they are just ideas, we hope to get them working soon.

Your Indo-European language team.

New europaio.org Wiki websites, new language projects and change of Dnghu’s domain name language policy

The latest changes in the Association:

1. We decided to change our Indo-European Language Association domain name language policy, from a standard of “.eu” domains and translated terms written as is in the language, we want to offer a more unified writing, thus using almost only “.org” and names without dashes – but for indo-european.eu, which was the only available, and indoeuropeo.eu in Italian, because the .org is reserved for the Spanish version. At the same time, we hired some more domain names in Danish, Czech, Lithuanian, Latvian or Slovenian.

2. Our main aim was – and still is- to revive Europe’s Indo-European as the national language of the European Union, not the common Late PIE, because of the difficulties in reconstructing it with sufficient confidence. However, given that:

  1. Speakers of languages derived from Proto-Germanic, Proto-Italic, Proto-Celtic, Proto-Slavic and Proto-Baltic are not the only ones interested in reviving Proto-Indo-European in one of its dialects.
  2. Reviving Late PIE phonology with exactitude is still as impossible as in Saussure’s time.
  3. As with Proto-European (or Europe’s Indo-European), we know the shape of those Proto-Indo-European dialects that existed ca. 2500 BC.
  4. All reconstructed PIE dialects are different to some extent only, especially in phonology, but very similar in morphology and syntax,.

We want to offer the possibility of using all the reconstructible PIE dialects as of 2500 BC (see a map), i.e. Proto-European or Europe’s Indo-European (IE IIIb); Proto-Indo-Iranian or Proto-Aryan and Proto-Greek (both IE IIIa); and Proto-Anatolian, a dialect of IE II; as well as discussing the theoretical aspects of Proto-Indo-European reconstruction. All of these projects have a Wiki dedicated to discuss its reconstruction and the modern shape the language should have today (europeanlanguage.org, aryanlanguage.org, helleniclanguage.org, anatolianlanguage.org and protoindoeuropean.org), and another Wiki dedicated to its experimental use, as a kind of Wikipedia-Wikisource-Wikinews (europaiom.org, arijam.org, hellenika.org, anatali.org, respectively).

3. We have consequently closed or rearranged the websites dedicated to write in Europe’s Indo-European: they will be concentrated in that website mentioned above, europaiom.org. Only the Indo-European etymological Wiki dictionary will remain.

With those changes we expect to concentrate efforts, attract more collaboration and spend less.

Your Indo-European language team.

Brief report on the Proto-Indo-European language revival presentation in Toulouse, in the ‘Forom des Langues et Cultures du Monde’

Just as Prof. Feraud, from the Russian stand in the Forum des Langues de Toulouse, describes the event yesterday, with the public reaction to the presentation of the Proto-Indo-European language revival project:

There was a good attendance to the Language Forum, maybe in the thousands. Some hundreds of leaflets have been distributed among visitors – see an example of 4 leaflets in A4 size.

We’ve got in touch with many language associations and groups with variable reactions:

  • Complaints about the complexitiy of Proto-Indo-European declensions by some speakers of non-inflected languages.
  • Polite and positive reception by most other stand representatives of European languages.
  • Very good understanding of the bases of the project especially by the Indian and the Modern Hebrew ones, because of evident reasons.
  • Future collaborations with another Language Association and a European institution of Toulouse are forseeable, thanks to the contacts made.
  • AND, some critics also from the Esperanto stand: “the language for the European Union already exists, it is Esperanto…” 😕

Your Indo-European Language Team.

Co-authoring the second edition of A Grammar of Modern Indo-European & opening of Indo-European bookstore

These are the latest developments of the Dnghu Association:

1. We have opened formally the possibility to participate in the authoring of the second edition of the book A Grammar of Modern Indo-European. We’ve added new download links, and the whole Word file might be downloaded as DOCX (original) and DOC format, and the book cover is available in Photoshop PSD format, both files in the latest available version.

2. Because of the interest in the printed version of A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, we have arranged a bookstore with Amazon, to let visitors choose among those books we deem interesting for Proto-Indo-European and Indo-European studies. This way, we recommend the books and at the same time obtain a percentage of Amazon’s earnings.

We have also added a tiny Ad link on Dnghu’s main websites, following our 2008 policy of recovering some money spent in non-associate visitors with Google ads.

Your Indo-European Language Team.

Modern Indo-European online language lessons, new website translations and open membership to the Association

During the last month and a half, there have been some improvements:

  1. We’ve begun a basic language learning project and favoured it over the rest of Indo-European development projects (news, encyclopaedia, texts, etc.). We want to help build a community giving them some basic knowledge, instead of just addressing those who already study (or have studied) Proto-Indo-European or Indo-European linguistics. We’ve just opened the online Modern Indo-European language lessons website at dnghu.org, still only in English, powered by Drupal.
  2. We’ve dedicated some time to keep building our main website, translating it into some new languages, like Polish, Russian, Greek, Czech, Romanian, Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Catalan, Slovak, Bulgarian, Lithuanian, Latvian, Danish or Slovene. If the other “main” languages are mainly poor machine translations, these new ones are in a still lesser category, and could be tagged more or less like bad automatic translated menus… In other words, they are there for people to be able to collaborate directly correcting mistakes and adding information from the English website, as they could already do with the “main” languages. Any correction or addition might be (as always) discussed at our Indo-European languages forum.
  3. We opened the membership for the Dnghu Association back in February. We don’t want to advertise it too much, as our aim is not (yet) to develop the participative side of our society, but to offer to those interested the possibility to help our association with small donations, with the return of being officially members of the Association (apart from other benefits we’ll try to give them) and thus being able to take some ordinary decisions. The actual problem is that the society is legally based in Spain, and important decisions are taken in our town; therefore, legally speaking, to be a member right now will mean generally no participation in important or strategic decision-taking. To sum up: for those interested in being members and help us a little bit, there is a new option called membership, which gives some legal rights, quite limited for those living outside Spain. For those not interested in taking that step, participation and discussion in our public projects remains open for all.

In the following weeks we’ll try to:

  • Further develop the online language lessons, including some audio files to give a better idea of the Modern Indo-European pronunciation.
  • Publish some officially translated texts, like prayers and Bible passages, either here in this website or in the Wikis for Indo-European texts
  • Send more printed copiesof the Indo-European grammar to European libraries; we have almost completed a new list of another 100 public and university libraries, we’ll see if and when we have enough time to prepare the packages.

Your Indo-European Language Team.

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