Archive for the 'DNGHU Association' Category

Modern Indo-European learning course (Alpha version) revised, Syntax near to publication, and translations

It seems that, after some months of public standstill in our websites, people are showing again that they have been working hard backstage. 2012 will be a great year for those willing to learn (Late) Proto-Indo-European as a living language:

1) Mario has published a revision of his work, the Modern Indo-European learning course. He would like to thank readers and contributors, and we would like to remind you that you can collaborate with corrections and additions, by contacting him personally.

2) Fernando is still working on his temptative Syntax of Modern Indo-European. He has been creating a great, thorough and comprehensive work, full of bilingual examples, from the advances we have been able to read. And even though it must be published months later than expected, and possibly still months from now – since he is constantly revising and improving it -, it will certainly be worth the waiting…

3) A member has offered himself to translate the Grammar into French. If you would like to offer him some help, please contact us.

4) As you probably know, more than 3 years ago our account on PayPal was suddenly frozen, after receiving some money from members; it was “provisional”, until we showed “proofs” of our not-for-profit nature (which they hadn’t asked on registration, or for receiving money). Apart from the official documents that we sent them and that should have sufficed (Associations are not-for-profit in Spain, and Dnghu is one of the few that appear on the official National Registry of Associations), we have sent PayPal every possible document requested, and asked for more instructions to open again the account: After hours lost obtaining, scanning and sending every possible stupid “proof” you can imagine (for an account that might receive a maximum of some hundred dollars a year), they haven’t done so – just allowed us temporarily to take away the money received. Because of that, the membership of the Association has been almost impossible for everyone since 2009, and indeed regular payments were stopped, and just an initial fee requested; some recent members haven therefore been allowed to join officially, and to pay after we solve this issue.

After all these months, I have to agree with the people who hate PayPal for their service, and I guess we will have to create an account on Google Checkout or other similar but less known service. As you might infer, the payment for membership was always more a question of barrier to entry (“only those who are really interested in the Association will pay for membership”) than a financing issue for us – since we survive on free work and donations -; but this level of incompetence is unacceptable…

Also, after the improvements of 2012 in the development of the language, we certainly need to start thinking about organizing language courses and “congresses”, as well as other services for interested people. For such events, external payment cannot be just an option to complement donations, and we will need a professional and trustable payment service.

Your Indo-European Association team.

Back to work: full revision of A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, syntax and learning course

Dear members and friends,

We have been revising the grammar for 5 intensive weeks already, and probably within 2 weeks we will publish a new full revision of it. While this (probably third printed) edition has been improved to a great extent, there are two aspects we still have to work with:

– Fernando is working on a comprehensive Proto-Indo-European syntax, and it is not expected to be finished before this summer. The available chapters on syntax – mainly related to the older IE languages – have also been corrected and improved, though.

– Mario has proposed an Assimil-like self-learning and introductory course, whose first stub lessons and general schema he has personally worked. Our previous idea was to create a real archaeological and cultural environment for North-West Indo-European, as in the Ancient Greek or Latin Assimils, but his proposal to work with us has changed the original we-do-it-alone view.

To collect in 100 short lessons the language, customs, archaeology, poetry, and culture in general, of some prehistoric European peoples, is a huge enterprise, and we think it might be a good idea to work on the stories collaboratively. Therefore, if any of you know or are interested in these fields, and you feel like collaborating in creating a whole story (or more exactly a lot of short, connected stories), as historically and linguistically accurate as possible, we might include some more people, and maybe collaborate through Google Docs instead of per email, as we are used to. You can contact us at .

– About problems or mistakes of webs, wikis, forums, blogs, translations, etc. this is nowadays a secondary problem. Within weeks we might begin to think about improving and changing them, but for the moment the aim is language, language, language…and culture!

Your Indo-European team.

Open letter to the Indo-European Language Revival Association members, friends and supporters

Dear members, friends and supporters of Dnghu,

We are aware that we have neglected many of you over the last months. This letter is part of our attempt to put this right, informing you of the latest events.

After a long time of dealing with our professional issues, which have completely absorbed our time, partly due to the economic crisis, partly due to some special career compromises, we are already planning to resume work where we left it, beginning in march 2011.

During the last 10 months of standstill, some of you have proposed changes to our texts, or questioned reconstruction issues, while others have suggested improvements to the project’s short- and long-term aims; some did also help us solve common (spam or technical) problems in our websites.

Even though we didn’t answer ANY of you due to the lack of time, please be assured that we did (and do) read your mails and comments, and that we thank you very much for your support, proposals, and criticism. If you really needed a specific answer, please do not hesitate to resend your question after we have renewed the work on Dnghu.

Some members (and board members) have changed works, or have moved, or have been working harder due to the crisis and its effects on personal and family finances, and this has led to the long break.

However, due to the free and public nature of our works, our lack of activity hasn’t prevented many of you from downloading and buying the books, studying the language, and trying to speak it. You are thus helping create a more prepared community for the beginning of the (spoken) IE revival; we are aware of these facts, too, and that gives us another strong reason to renew our efforts as soon as possible.

I myself have been quite busy with practices in some hospital services during my last year at medical school, and for some months already I have been preparing myself for the State Exam for Medical Residents (the so-called “MIR”) in Spain. After taking the exam, I hope to have at least 3 free months before the beginning of hospital work, and I expect to dedicate some of that free time to the project.

Among the most pressing matters, there are some needed corrections and improvements to the Grammar (especially the Syntax) and vocabulary, some additional text translations into MIE, a learning method (Assimil– or Teach Yourself-like), and the long-awaited (and long-requested, by the way) podcasts, or at least some audios to help speakers with IE pronunciation.

As you probably understand, this is a project that began as an economic-revivalist one in 2006 – a theoretical proposal of one language for the EU for practical reasons, shared within the University, which got the attention and recognition of its leading members, and which should have been taken over afterwards – according to the initial plan – by its Faculty of Arts, with research projects on linguistics.

Dnghu has instead gradually become a mainly private, linguistic-revivalist project (with the Association as the accompanying ‘social’ branch of the language revival), which has also changed its “EU-only” initial vision, and in which the linguistic work is now the leading question, that needed (and needs) to be carefully discussed and reviewed by some of us with no direct contact between us, and who have other interests and careers in the daily world…

Thank you for your patience and support,

Best regards,

Carlos Quiles

Dnghu will give compensations to translators of our main book, A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Second Edition

We have been asking for collaborative help translating our main work, A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Second Edition, since its first edition in 2006. We have always offered our works for free, for everyone to be able to read them, and we want to maintain that policy.

Until now, no full translation has been made, probably because of the instability of our previous releases (versions 1 and 2 were considered alpha, version 3 and pre-version 4 were labeled beta). But today we have a stable work we would like to get translated, so that most Europeans are able to read it in their own languages.

For that reason, we want to offer a little compensation, to cover some of the costs of dedicating time to the project. It is indeed not the deserved payment for such a tough work, but it is free collaboration of our members and friends what we are looking for, trying to compensate them for their contributions in these times of financial crisis, which affect us all.

To date, we can afford paying 100€ for a translation of the first 339 pages of the grammar into German (Hochdeutsch, Germany), French (français standard, France), Spanish (español tradicional, España), or Italian (Standard Italian). According to the Spanish minimal wage for temporary jobs in 2009 (29,56€/day), such a payment would correspond roughly to three and 1/3 days of work, some 12 pages/hour or 100 pages/day.

The compensations will be paid with the earnings from Google Ads in the last year (120$), and then with private donations from our benefactor, Academia Biblos.

Taking into account that many words and tables need not be translated, a translation into the own mother tongue shouldn’t take more than a week of part-time work for someone who has previous knowledge of its content, or at least of linguistics, and proficiency in English.

Apart from the attribution of the translation work inside the book, other benefits can be further discussed, depending on the professionals involved – these include permanent links to the translator’s website, shared benefits of the sales through, etc. Given that a lot of people work for free projects without getting paid, these compensations should be seen as incentives more than actual payments.

Only one professional or team of professionals – of those who apply with enough credentials – will be accepted for each translation job (regarding this compensation, as everyone is free to change and redistribute the book) on a first-come, first-choice basis. You can read more about the profile we are looking for.

Your Indo-European team.

45 copies of the Indo-European Grammar sold in the first 30 days, copies sent to members and Dnghu’s new bank account

These are the latest developments at Dnghu:

  • Our main work, A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Second Edition, has been sold as printed book through Amazon 45 times since the 16th of October (plus one copy of the earlier 4.1 version), what makes it quite a successful start, compared to the first edition of the grammar. We expect the number of books sold to decrease probably to 20 each month, given that some of the books initially sold correspond to updates of those who owned the first edition. The number is not related to the (much higher) number of readers (or downloaders), but is a good indicator of real interest in the grammar.
  • Three books will be sent to members who bough the first edition of the grammar, thanks to the money earned during the last 30 days with the second edition. Another copy will be sent to an editor for its promotion among bookshops.
  • The new bank account of the Dnghu Association has been created at the BBVA. We hope to get less problems with PayPal thanks to that change.

Your Indo-European Language Team.

A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Second Printed Edition, available for purchase – Dnghu becomes an oficially registered Association

The latest version of A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, version 4, Second Printed Edition, was published online some days ago, and its printed edition has been approved, so that it is available for purchase at Amazon.

We will try to provide members with the second printed edition of the grammar, to replace their previous versions at no cost. This will be made at a slow pace, using the benefits obtained with the sale of the second edition, i.e. ≈1$/copy for Amazon, ≈5$/copy for CreateSpace.

Dnghu has obtained – as it was previously announced – the official registration (and registration ID) from the Spanish Registry of Associations, at the Spanish Interior Ministry.

Your Indo-European Language Team.

A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Second Edition, published, new web server and other news

These are the latest developments at Dnghu:

  • A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Second Edition, is prepared for its publication as a printed book, and we are awaiting the arrival of the proof copy to accept it and let it be sold at Amazon, probably within the next days. We wanted to offer immediately the final version for download, even though not all links might work. It is a full revision of the previous version (Pre-Version 4), itself a full revision of the previous one (Version 3), it has 824 pages of information concerning Proto-Indo-European reconstruction and the Modern Indo-European language, and it enters a stable version of the language system, after more than 3 years of improvements to the first version of the grammar. That’s what we have been doing during the last months, if you wondered why we didn’t publish new reports. Just in case you have been following the development of the Second Printed Edition at CreateSpace, it was ready for publication on the 1st of September, but the lexicon included was improved and we needed to rewrite the sections affected by that change. We hope to update the full website (not only the English translation) in the near future, to add the newest edition of our main resource. As always, we will thank any criticisms and suggestions of changes to the grammar.
  • We hired a new DSL connection, moved the location of our web server, and later installed our OpenSuse configuration on a new dedicated server (HP Proliant) purchased for the Association by our sponsor, Academia Biblos. We apologize to all visitors that might have experienced (and that might experience) some problems since the 21st of September, but we are still working on it. We expect to double the previous bandwidth and general performance of the Association’s web services.
  • The Association is going to have its official inscription (and inscription number) within the next days. As you might know, that was promised by the Spanish Interior Ministry more than a year ago, but it seems that this time – after 5 attempts – is for real. No more excuses about ‘the name not being Spanish’ and the like.
  • After the newest developments regarding MIE and the Association, we will improve all sections in our website accordingly, including the homepage, texts translated into Indo-European, the Proto-Indo-European Lexicon, the resources, etc. In the meantime, the Second Edition of the grammar should be enough to see the most recent linguistic developments concerning the modern language system.
  • The “Indo-European Network” concept has been cancelled. It was conceived as a network (or ring) of associations and organizations related to Europe or the Indo-European language and culture. We abandoned it due to the lack of support of enough number of organizations. We thank them for their support.

And that’s all for now. A lot of changes ahead, though.

Your Indo-European Language Team.

Membership of the Indo-European Language Association, now without ordinary annual subscription fees

Statement by the Board, 27 Feb 2009: There has been a gross mistake in the description of the new condition for members. The ordinary Assembly General, held in February, decided in second call (Art. 20, First, Estatutes) with a qualified majority – of the members that were there with right to vote – that ordinary annual subscription fees would amount to 0€. There were indeed talks about “lifelong membership” (which is partly the practical consequence of the decision taken), but the matter wasn’t voted in those terms due to the need of modifying the Constitution. Even if the majority of votes (unanimity) qualified to legally make such a modification – according to Art. 20 b) – the terms of the agreement didn’t include but a change in ordinary annual subscription fees. Furthermore, no specific talks were held or decisions taken about the necessary modification of Estatutes to include such a “lifelong membership” condition. We are sorry for the inconveniences (if any).

The Association opened itself for international membership a year ago. Before its first birthday forces the first subscribers to pay one more year, we have decided to turn ordinary subscription fees to zero, and to make the standard payment the only type of subscription, following the example of other international non-profit organizations.

The decision is based on two main reasons:

  1. The Association was firstly conceived as a regional one. Members have subscribed from different European countries, expecting to find an international organization. The strength of such an international Association is based on the number of members who can collaborate with each other in the different regions and countries, and this is difficult to achieve with a 15€/year obligatory fee.
  2. Subscriptions have been based on the benefits of membership, which have changed over time because they were excessively optimistic, especially regarding the benefits of “academic courses”, “conferences” and “meetings”, which haven’t been held. It isn’t fair that early members pay more for benefits and events that will be held in the future, and it could make them abandon the Association expecting a better future value of the subscription fee.

We have therefore left just a standard unique 15€ fee as obligatory, because the 7€ unwaged/student fee isn’t rational anymore. Nevertheless, those subscribers who made use of that discount will be automatically turned into standard members. We didn’t consider leaving a lower standard fee to avoid the membership of unresponsible people attracted by low prices.

Also, given that the Association will (hopefully) become a strong organization in number of willing members, the linguistic aspect will need the collaboration of the old concept of the “Europaiom Consortium of experts”, which is now the Proto-Indo-European Language Foundation (Eur. Dnghu Bhudhnós). Its internal and external organization rules will be written down in the Association Wiki.

Other development of February was the inclusion of ads in all public wikis, to help cover the monthly expenses of the Association.

Your Indo-European language team.

Proposals and votes in the Association, free collaboration easier with OpenID, translations and more linguistic projects

These are the latest changes and projects of the Association:

1. After debating the possibility of opening free international membership for all, restricting actual membership (with voting rights) just for local people – to compel foreigners to develop their own Indo-European language revival organizations in the different countries, instead of relying in our tiny Association for the whole European Union – we eventually decided to maintain the statu quo, letting foreigners become members, and offering new ways to make proposals and vote them online, to elect and become eligible to the Association board, so that we can grow as a real European Association; indeed without losing the hope of seeing more local and regional associations being created elsewhere to promote and support PIE revival… For that purpose we installed a Wiki, accessible from the homepage, opened for all.

2. We installed the OpenID extension for all the Wiki websites and the WordPress blogs used at Dnghu for news, latest reports, personal bloggin, etc. This way, instead of looking for a common database registration of new users, we hope to offer everybody the possibility to collaborate everywhere at Dnghu’s website without a need to register, not even once if the user has already an OpenID account.

3. We offer now translations of the Latest Reports section into 7 more languages: German, French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Dutch and Polish. Indeed they are still only automatic translations, as we lack the necessary team to work with translations, but with these WordPress blogs and with OpenID we hope to get more contributions to improve the translated news.

4. We are also preparing two more language projects, aimed at improving the current European Union’s language policy: Languages World to offer an improved World language collaborative compendium, which should include proto-languages as well, to improve current compendia like the Ethnologue; and PrÅ«siskan, a Wiki to work on the revival of the Old Prussian language. For now they are just ideas, we hope to get them working soon.

Your Indo-European language team.

Problems (again) with the webservers, new services added for, and more grammars donated to European libraries

Newest developments of the Association:

  1. Our webservers didn’t function correctly until the 20th of July, probably since June – i.e. just the period we couldn’t take care of them – due to some new configuration of the DSL by Spanish main telecom Telefonica, or, according to them, because of the “wrong installation / reparation by the technical service” last year, which was actually made by their official service 😕 . Apparently, then, we have to withstand technical problems of our Internet devices once a year…
  2. The new webmail accounts are already working using Google’s Gmail. That means some relief for our servers, and an easier administration of the accounts. There is also an email list for (allowed) subscribers at The first member blog has been created at the domain, too. All those options are still only opened for members, but we hope to be offering them for simple registered users in the near future. You can begin requesting them right now, though.
  3. After the failure of Orkut’s group, probably due to the limited success it has in countries different from Brazil and India, a new group has been created in Facebook, in the hope that it becomes a popular social network in Europe. More than a way to communicate between members, it should be a forum to spread and discuss the project with those interested in it.
  4. Some more grammars have been donated to European public and university libraries. New additions might be followed, as always, from the library donations page. There are some 170 books already, and hopefully we’ll be sending some 20 more to libraries related to the European Union (in Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg) in the next weeks. After that, more copies of the printed edition will probably be needed to continue this donation campaign, or else stopped for some time.
  5. The Association is represented by the French Chauvet Cave Bear logo, because it represents the oldest tradition/history of Central Europe and therefore its original, prehistorical inhabitants. We eventually selected a symbol to represent the language (and therefore projects like Europaiom), the Danish solvogn or “sunwagon“, because that is probably the oldest representation we have of what are (and were) common symbols of those who spoke Europe’s Indo-European in the latest PIE community in Northern Europe until ca. 4.000 years ago: the horse and the wheel, or, better, the horse and the wagon. The solvogn (of ca. 1800-1600 BC) was most probably made within an already differentiated Proto-Germanic community, but is nevertheless representative of the common ancient Indo-European language and culture of Europe. It therefore represents the purity looked for with the modern language system in relation to the prehistorical European language we try to revive at Dnghu.

Your Indo-European Language Association Team.

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